But I Want More Gods

by | Jun 12, 2023

flower painting

Authentic Joseph Smith (No. 17)

Part of the Joseph Smith, Jr. Series

All blue quotes by Joseph Smith (unless otherwise noted).

Times and Seasons – Conference Minutes – August 1844

Today is my birthday, and I’m addressing a topic I wanted to share for a while. I’ve thought and pondered on the heavenly mother topic quite a bit. Perhaps my whole life.

This article is written in love and with ample goodwill – I hope something touches you and you find it helpful in understanding our remarkable journey.

After studying the Joseph Smith Papers and Wilford Woodruff diaries – I realized the theories and folklore I’ve heard my entire adult church life are in error. The authentic quotes, verses, and pondering I offer here may surprise you. I hope you will consider the content on its own merits.

Here is my conclusion: heavenly mother is a cultural and a societal construct. It’s not doctrine and collides with our scriptures and Joseph Smith’s prophetic teachings.

It is not troubling to discover something like this! Especially when it opens the door to better and greater understanding. We’ve revised our collective beliefs before as Latter-day Saints in the past, and I’m sure it will happen again.

Culture is powerful. Cultural teachings repeated often enough become a compelling truth for some.

History Repeats

About 13 years ago (2010), I experienced significant backlash when I expressed that the black priesthood ban was a huge mistake, that it was never from God, and an error from the day of its inception. Trust me, it did not go over well, and I was branded a heretic. Frankly, some people were just awful about it. But understanding that truth opened many doors for me. Once I accepted that fact, working through other misgivings and questions was much easier.

What was the remedy for my social challenges? Wait 5-10 years for broader awareness and acceptance of that idea. Now the Church’s website refers to it as an error. They first posted this message in an article about blacks and the priesthood in 2012.

We condemn racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church.

Along with this message:

Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.

The message still reads mostly the same today – you can find a link at the end of this post if it interests you.


Forty-five years later, we’re still apologizing for the priesthood ban and wearing its disgrace. We deserve that. Forget 1978; we endorsed and practiced a great untruth.

I’m brave to put it like that because the suggestion that anything about our religious culture needs reviewing and upgrading undoes some people. Please don’t let that ruffle you. The Lord is absolutely in charge of His Church.

Nonetheless, some members of our Latter-day Saint culture had to brand this moment in time as some tremendous NEW revelation, and the Lord was scapegoated for waiting until 1978 to reveal the lifting of the priesthood ban – inferring it was His idea that the ban went on for 133 years.

The greater truth is we allowed a social construct to dictate our beliefs and we wouldn’t listen, respond or consider lifting the ban earlier.

It was a mistake. So what did we learn? Hopefully, we learned not to allow culture and opinions to define our doctrine and beliefs. Hopefully, we learned that just because an explanation has been around a long time, it doesn’t automatically qualify as truth. Hopefully, we learned there is a difference between revelation from the Lord to his prophet and labeled as a vision VS. that prophet’s non-prophet, man-in-progress learning curves, and cultural beliefs.

“A prophet is a prophet only when acting as such.” Joseph Smith

Curiously, it wasn’t Joseph Smith’s mistake – because he gave blacks the priesthood and called them to leadership positions. The ban took place after he died, and the practice took shape as we fled to the West.

I was just a teenager when the priesthood ban was lifted. I was home alone watching TV, and the Holy Ghost firmly whispered, “Change the channel.” Surprised, I obeyed and flipped the channel one click over (back then, we had three channels and used a dial), and there was the stunning announcement that blacks could now hold the priesthood. I ran around the house, praising and crying in complete joy. I’m not sure why I knew it was paramount because I knew very little doctrine, and my understanding of the Church was scanty back then. But my soul burned from head to toe. The Spirit was joyful and somehow wanted me, a completely insignificant, unremarkable teenager with zero influence with anyone, to know about it. I remember that event like it was yesterday.

But the point is, the Spirit was exceedingly joyful and not looking back and condemning. Perhaps it’s because valiant, extraordinary people were set free. That’s an important observation. Let’s praise that we finally got it right. Sometimes we need to be happier about the outcome, the growth, the enlightenment, and the progression and less indignant or offended about past mistakes.

Many, many mistakes are guaranteed due to the nature of mortality. It seems mistakes are better when embraced and learned from, rather than pretending they don’t exist or letting them become prompts for a negative and bitter outlook. Please don’t let anyone’s mistakes justify a lack of compassion or a loss of faithfulness.

As a Latter-day Saint society, the discovery that the doctrine of infallibility (meaning there aren’t plenty of mistakes and learning curves among our leaders) isn’t true sends some people’s sense of faith and trust into cartwheels.

Oh goodness, please take another look around you.

Infallibility (never getting it wrong) is a fake, contrived, ridiculous benchmark for any person or organization. Every person and institution from the dawn of time falls short of it. That includes prophets. Mistakes abound in every corner of mortality’s existence—science and academic institutions, governments, industry, enterprises, whole countries, cultures, and religions. Prophet mistakes are recorded repeatedly in the Bible. Not to mention your life, my life, every person’s life you’ve ever known. Infallibility has never happened nor taken place at any time in our entire world history except for Jesus Christ.

And yet infallibility is the standard antagonists apply to our Church as some litmus test and proof of our false religion and prophets – while everything they’ve ever done, believed, or supported couldn’t pass that same test. Nonetheless, only our cause fails if we make an error, theirs do not. Next time, catch the double standard.

So I plead that we never let someone’s predictable fallibility come between Christ and our fortifying the goodness in His Church. The contract for supporting His Church and keeping the Sabbath Day holy is between you and Him—no one else.

I’ve realized that the Lord allows for mistakes and learning curves. There are some great scriptures about that, individually and collectively, as a Church. That includes you and me. But that’s a whole different topic.

Playing Heretic

As if playing the heretic 13 years ago wasn’t enough! I’m about to go at it again for another five to ten years. Nonetheless, this will go the same route as the black priesthood ban. It has all the same markers and patterns. I’ve been here before.

More Gods – Not Your Average Moral Lesson

This is not a moral lesson about priorities, pursuits, and possessions, like stuff in our lives becoming more important gods than the actual Godhead. While that does happen, and Isaiah repeatedly warns us about that in his end-times prophecy, this article is about the extra gods or personages we have given names and assigned personalities to.

Humanity forever wants more gods. To date, over 18,000 different deities have been identified and worshiped throughout the world.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me
; (Exodus 20:3-5)

In other words, as mortals, we often seek out extra gods and other cosmic friends, and the practice is alive and well amongst some in our Latter-day Saint Church.

But praying to other gods is OK if we don’t bow down, right?

Webster’s 1828 Dictionary

prayer:  In worship, a solemn address to the Supreme Being, consisting of adoration, or an expression of our sense of God’s glorious perfections, confession of our sins, supplication for mercy and forgiveness, intercession for blessings on others, and thanksgiving, or an expression of gratitude to God for his mercies and benefits. A prayer however may consist of a single petition, and it may be extemporaneous, written or printed.

I learned a new word! A lot of my prayers are extemporaneous.

extemporaneous: Composed, performed or uttered at the time the subject occurs, without previous study; unpremeditated; as an extemporaneous address; an extemporaneous production; an extemporaneous prescription. (spur-of-the-moment, informal))

Prayer is a part of worship and recognition of the addressed one’s holy station with god-like status and/or powers.

Merriam-Webster 2023

prayer: an address (such as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought

Imaginary Cosmic Advocates

Creating imaginary cosmic advocates has been entrenched in our society and culture since almost the dawn of time. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone…it’s just simply something human nature tends to do.

Catholic Church

One of my dearest and favorite friends is Catholic. I love spending time with her, and I see her every week or two. We have a great time! Catholics are responsible for keeping Christianity alive during a period of earth’s history when no one else endorsed it. This article is not a referendum on her faith. It’s a referendum on ours. But sometimes, it’s easier to look outside our culture and at others’ everyday practices to set the stage and understand ourselves better.

Many members of the Catholic Church pray to Mother Mary and others who have passed and are designated as saints. Let’s take a look at that.

Beatles Song

Do you remember the Beatles’ hit song “Let It Be”?

It is a beautiful, catchy song full of soulful lyrics. Have a listen (2 mins).

Hopefully, you heard this and followed along to experience how convincing and swaying a song can be. By the time it’s finished (speaking of listeners in general), we’re sure Mother Mary is alive and well and doing her thing. If you read the many comments under this video, you’ll see how many people are touched and share their experiences with Mother Mary.

Now substitute the word Mother Mary with Heavenly Mother. Maybe listen and sing that song again.

That’s how the idea of Heavenly Mother got started in our culture. No scriptures, doctrine, or prophet reveals it as a vision or revelation. It appeared in a popular, soulful poem by Eliza R. Snow a year after Joseph Smith’s death. William Clayton wrote one too. The story is Joseph Smith told Eliza R. Snow such things in a private conversation. I’m pretty sure that is fiction because Joseph’s teachings right before he died made it crystal clear he thought no such thing nor taught it.

Quick Review

If the doctrine of self-existing, eternal spirits without creation, without birth, without being “organized,” and without a beginning is a new thought or precept for you – here are Joseph Smith’s teachings on the topic in two posts:

Joseph Explains Where Your Spirit Comes From

Tastes as Sweet as Honey

To sum them both up:

  • God did not make your spirit
  • Your spirit is self-existing, just like God
  • Soul = body + your spirit
  • You existed as spirit and mind coequal with God himself (let Joseph explain that one)
  • Your spirit is unchangeable.
  • your spirit has no beginning and no end
  • your spirit’s existence is like a ring.
  • God doesn’t create spirits; he didn’t create himself
  • Intelligence is eternal and self-existing
  • If we have a coherent, functioning mind – our relationship with God requires efforts to study and advance in knowledge
  • God institutes laws and instructions so we may be exalted with Himself
  • All revelation, he reveals to our spirits
  • [Exhalting] the spirit, [exhalts] the body (to a level of glory for eternity).

Here is a quick quote from Joseph Smith:

…God never did have power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself: intelligence exists upon a self-existent principle, it is a spirit from age to age, and there is no creation about it. All the spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement. The first principles of man are self-existent with God; that God himself finds himself in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was greater, and because he saw proper to institute laws, whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself, that they might have one glory upon another, in all that knowledge, power, and glory, &c., in order to save the world of spirits.

Elohim set out to save our world of spirits. Jesus followed what he saw the Father do and saved us here on Earth.

That we are self-existing without a creation or a spirit birth are truths that makes more sense than any other explanation I have heard about the pre-existence. Including the false cultural teachings that we were born spiritually in some like manner as we are born physically on earth and dwelt in cute little family units. We have popular musicals, poems, books, stories, and cultural teachings about the pre-existence that are wrong.

Understanding Heavenly Father is a rock-solid foundation for self-esteem and self-awareness. I wonder why the dear prophet Joseph’s clear descriptions don’t exist in Sunday School manuals. Perhaps it is too far from the prevailing traditional notions or too deep for most to contemplate. Maybe it is something meant to be sought after and studied out.

What the “doctrine” of Heavenly Mother distracts from and covers up are the significantly higher truths about who we are, how we exist and what our extraordinary composition is.

Shawnie Cannon – Divine Code

The Greater Truth of Who You Are

You are far more extraordinary than you may have realized. Your legacy is far more incredible than you have been traditionally taught. You are a child of God – but just how you are a child of Him says volumes about you. You are an eternal spirit that had no beginning. Just like God, you always existed. You were not organized, created, or made. You self-exist on your power. You uphold God’s kingdom of your own will and power. I know this is wildly new for some of you. Please read what Joseph Smith has to say. He teaches it with more effectiveness than I can.

Types and Shadows

You are an exist-on-your-own being who gathered truth, light, knowledge, wisdom, and love to yourself, enlarged your intelligence, and made choices. In the world of spirits, you chose to align with Heavenly Father and be a part of his Kingdom. This pattern is familiar to us because we live it now. Your choosing to align with Heavenly Father was a type and shadow of the same arrangement and opportunity we have now during mortality. You choose to align yourself with Christ while on earth and become his sons and daughters.

And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
And under this head ye are made free, and there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives.
(Mosiah 5:7-8)

Notice there is no mother role nor mother symbolism in this at all.

“Both as Jehovah and Messiah, He is the great I Am, the self-existing God. He simply is and ever will be.” He said because Christ overcame all aspects of the Fall through the Atonement and the Resurrection, we can have ultimate trust in His power to help us overcome all things and give us everlasting life.” Elder Christofferson

That same type and shadow from the preexistence repeats when you decide to make and keep sacred covenants and are adopted into the house of Isreal. Both these examples are the same convention as the world of spirits.

Test the precept that you became sons and daughters of Heavenly Father both in the preexistence and here – against every scripture you have ever read. You will find it everywhere. On the other hand, you will find a heavenly mother or any mention or need of that role for you to exist, progress, and excel spiritually – exactly nowhere. Test Josephs’s words of how you have no beginning. They ring down to the core of your soul and reverberate out your fingertips.

You are a forever being.

Fortunately, the Joseph Smith papers and the Wilford Woodruff diaries are now published, and we can study them ourselves for the first time.

What About the Family Model?

But as this girl seemed to understand, there’s something equally sacred—something irreplaceable—about a parent nurturing a child. It reflects the pattern of heaven. Our Father in Heaven, our Divine Parent, surely rejoices when His children are taught and nurtured by their parents on earth. (Elder Uchtdorf  – April 2023)

Family is a different discussion – but quickly, families matter tremendously and fulfill essential divine purposes. Nothing said today detracts from that. Joseph once said family lineages were how we formed the chains necessary to become saviors on Mt. Zion to each other. It is how we organize saving ordinance work. It is the system that makes the human experience possible.

The commandment to multiply and replenish the earth was for where? Earth. No other place. It set up the supply of mortal physical bodies.

Will we be connected and endeared forever to each other hereafter? Yes. Posterity is of great importance. Celestial marriage is the NEW and everlasting covenant and is of great importance.

But our current explanations of the pre-existence and family life hereafter?

Elder Eyring recently said.

We don’t know the details of family connections in the spirit world or what may come after we are resurrected. (I Love to See the Temple – April 2021)

How can he say that with all our “info” and teachings? My guess is our heavenly mother and pre-existence family unit folklore doesn’t fit the framework of our revealed doctrine…at all. Once you start comparing all the scripture verses and Joseph Smith quotes, etc. – you realize our traditional explanations and stories we’ve heard about the topic don’t line up.

On the other hand, Joseph’s clear direct teachings line up with every single modern verse we have on the topic of spirits, intelligence, and being Children of the Father.

To Sum Up

  • There are no principles to back the role or need for a heavenly mother god.
  • There are no spiritual instructions on how to include a heavenly mother in our lives at any time from any prophet.
  • There are no scriptures to back it up.
  • The Holy Ghost’s mission is to bear record of the Father and the Son.
  • Joseph Smith taught truths that eliminate any void or gap that a heavenly mother god role might fill.
  • There is no birthing of you.
  • There is no spiritual creation nor organization of you.

The heavenly mother doctrine can claim credibility from only a soulful, soothing poem that was culturally popular. Fan fiction expanded itself from the point of publication in 1845 onward. Much like the black priesthood ban – It appealed to our mortal experience and current societal construct.

O My Father

Next time you sing “O, My Father.” Notice the words of the hymn. There’s no claim of a prophet telling Eliza this “truth,” nor the Holy Ghost. The rationale is, “No, the thought makes reason stare.” That’s her appeal to authority on this topic. The patterns she sees in the world around her.

Logic and culture are the only authority cited by anyone at any time for “Heavenly Mother.”

See “additional resources” for thoughts on my favorite heavenly mother myths.

Simplicity Makes Reason Stare

It’s conspicuous that we have no prophets that ever received a manifestation or revelation of a heavenly mother. Only others claim that. Maybe one could infer that Heavenly Mother avoids prophets.

Now the Joseph Smith papers are published – which are extensive. We have 14 years of his words, teachings, and conversations. We have the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. We now have the online diaries of Wilford Woodruff, who faithfully recorded just about everything he ever heard the prophet say the day he spoke it. Joseph Smith was not shy – especially among those he was close to. Yet there is not one whisper of a heavenly mother/god doctrine throughout his works and conversations. There is not one mention in the thousands of years represented by the Bible either.

Did anyone consider the possibility that there were never any references to a heavenly mother god because there isn’t a divine mother god?

So simple.

Heavenly Father and Christ Are Gods

Joseph Smith started his conference talk in April 1843 by saying, “There are a very few beings in the world who understand rightly the character of God.”

Why does understanding the character of God matter?

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (John 17:3)

Why are Heavenly Father and Christ Gods worthy of our adoration, devotion, and prayers? What makes them the ones we worship and reference? Why not add a heavenly mother and family members who have passed on as those we pray to and communicate with?

Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have unfathomable love and benevolence for us. But let me single out a significant reason for being revered as our Gods that they alone hold – they laid down their lives for us in a way that was incomprehensibly difficult and impossible to duplicate. Heavenly Father first, then Jesus Christ followed suit.

What did Jesus do? [paraphrasing Christ] Why I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same…Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power; to do what? why what the Father did, that answer is obvious; in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus what are you going to do? To lay down my life, as my Father did, and take it up again. (Joseph Smith Times and Seasons April 7, 1844)

This describes, in part, the greatness of a God we pray to and worship:

Even in our folklore, we don’t have a heavenly mother that laid down her life.

“But, I want more gods.”

I pray we are not a part of that crowd – that seeks additional cosmic advocates. That brings confusion and a misunderstanding of ourselves.

Sadly, if we insist on praying to or consulting a non-God, we create a vacuum. Unsavory spirits and subversive powers will fill the void we conjured up and appeal to. Having other gods before Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ cannot be rewarded.

If you are one who prays or has daily conversations with a heavenly mother (or deceased family members) – please consider redirecting all of that to Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ who love you beyond understanding. Heavenly Father, whose shining rises and fills all eternal realms with light and power is the God we pray to. Jesus Christ is the God we cultivate a daily relationship with and pray extemporaneously.

I testify that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the only members of the Godhead to which we direct our devotions, prayers, and petitions – and it is our extraordinary fortune to know them for they love us beyond our comprehension and mean to exalt us as high as themselves.

We love him, because he first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

Thank you for reading!

Additional Resources

Church’s Official Statement 2023

“Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.” (Race and the Priesthood)

disavow: deny any responsibility or support for, disclaim, disown, wash one’s hands of, repudiate, reject, renounce

Deceased Family Members

The Catholics have deceased saints they pray to instead of God, and we immediately find that concept foreign. Part of it is a scripture from the Bible.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
(Exodus 20:3-5)

Additionally, the Bible speaks out on the practice of talking to and seeking advice from the dead in this verse:

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations, the Lord your God is driving them out before you. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

necromancer: the art or practice of calling up the spirits of the dead

Those who have passed on are not constantly watching us or speaking to us. Please consider this experience and the clarification shared by President Nelson.

The incident of visitation by deceased family members is rare and by a specific assignment for a particular purpose. They can’t see us any more than we can see them, and they certainly don’t become a frequent voice we’re supposed to seek after.

Favorite Myths

Just like the black priesthood ban, with a void of scripture and revelations to back it up – we’ve explained away the lack of references to a heavenly mother with all manner of “heavenly” theories and explanations. Here are a couple of my favorites:

Heavenly Mother used to exist in writings, but chauvinism and the dark ages obscured and hid it -OR- In such and such ancient text (___________), the idea of a feminine deity exists by the name of (________). My response? Many things exist in ancient texts, just like in modern ones. What makes it true? Does being old make it true?

Don’t misunderstand me – ancient texts are fascinating and worthy of academic pursuit. I have a friend that excels in that profession and study, and I love hearing what she knows. But with so many different ideologies written in ancient texts – being ancient isn’t authority enough.

Curious, if a heavenly mother once existed and has been obscured from ancient texts because of culture and patriarchy, how come a heavenly mother also doesn’t appear in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, or the Pearl of Great Price written during our enlightened times?

Some others

“She’s so sacred that God decided not to say anything about her – to maintain respect.”

Oh, please…everything we heard on this theory is pure fantasy. But it’s more problematic than that. First, who wants a god that can’t handle it and is too delicate to deal with mortality? That’s more of a putdown on the capacity of women.

How is one god-like when they can’t handle reality and take the heat of humanness, so they have to be completely disconnected from it, not referred to, and turn their back on their children’s hard journies? What kind of strength and stature is that? That’s not a god. As if Heavenly Father said, “There, there, run along – I’ll handle things.”

And the shelter-from-hardship-and-disrespect explanation doesn’t hold, now does it? Heavenly Father has seen fit to put our feminine spirits through all manner of complex, hard mortal challenges and tackle evil head-on. And he has rendered us strong enough and capable enough to do so. That piece of fan fiction is just silly – as silly as some of the folklore we used to surround the black priesthood ban (which I’m not going to repeat. It isn’t worthy of utterance, and it makes me feel sad anyway.)

Next one: Elohi(m) is plural, so the word must include a heavenly mother. The problem is the extra m at the end of a Hebrew word has other functions. It denotes the greatest of all, like a master artisan or a king. But don’t take my word for it – the temple ceremony now makes it crystal clear that Elohim refers only to the Father, which is his name. The Joseph Smith Papers show how the different German, Hebrew, and Greek Bible translations denote Heavenly Father as the “Head God.” But that’s another topic.

My point? A heavenly mother god is the stuff of romantic, artistic, wishful folklore. It isn’t real.

Author’s Notes

The Joseph Smith Series comes from, in part, a book called “The Words of Joseph Smith.”

Note: usually, the book costs a small fortune ($150-$250) because it is out of print. But I found it for free at the BYU Religious Studies Center. (Thank you, BYU)

(P.S. I receive no compensation for any recommendations – I like sharing.)

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